“I Hate Organised Religion, But Boy, I sure do Hate you More”! – Farewell to the Scottish Secular Society

Why I left Secular Scotland – Again

“I hate organised religion, but boy, I sure do hate you more!” Garry Otton – Founder of the Scottish Secular Society.

I have been involved with Secular Scotland for the past few years but left last year – an experience I wrote about then. If you want the background to SS have a read of this – Why I Left Secular Scotland – The First Time

I came back because they promised that they were not an anti-religious group and that they would not tolerate the level of personal abuse that had been my experience. However if anything it appears that they have become more anti-religious and vitriolic than ever. Note some of the following comments –these are regarded as fine, apparently others have been removed. And they are only the tip of the iceberg.

It is interesting when you talk to Christians how loathed this arrogant self-publicist is by them. They are the first to assure everyone that he doesn’t represent them or Christianity. I’ll drink to that.

Religion as a dangerous substance is clearly demonstrated by DAR as addict. He pedals the stuff, overdoses on his own stash, misuses and abuses. Lock your doors.

Never mind the theory, just LOOK at the fella. Wouldn’t want him anywhere near my kids!

FFS! He’s nuts, I tell you, pure nuts!!

Yesterday I found seven threads attacking me personally or Solas. The level of personal abuse is quite wearing. The attacks not just on me, but anyone associated with me, including my children, my parents, my church and Solas are depressing. Of course I realise that on the internet you are going to get the eccentrics, the angry and the weird, but what is disturbing is that such is the level of hatred that even more sane people seem to go along with it. So I’ve had enough. There comes a time when you shake the dust off your feet. I’m out.

And it’s not just me. One member of their leadership group left because of the constant anti-religious attacks. Another secular leader wrote me and said that SS were an embarrassment to secularists because they had a private agenda that was different from mainstream secularism. And other former members of SS have contacted me saying the same thing. This rings true to me. SS seems to share the obsessions of its founder, sex and religion.

As regards sex, their founder wrote a book entitled Sexual Fascism, which, apart from its turgid prose, is a revealing attempt at justifying all manners of sexual perversion. Mr Otton seems to think that I am personally responsible for numerous suicides because I uphold a biblical view of morality. What he fails to grasp is that it is the rejection of Christian values and the adoption of sexual perversity, which is far more harmful and destructive to human life, children and society as a whole. I deplore homophobia and any kind of bullying. I also deplore any teaching, which leads children and others into the degenerate wastelands of sexual perversity, and the destruction that comes from that. It is precisely because I want to protect children and young people that I will continue to teach them the Father’s loving instructions. The wisdom of God is better than the foolishness of men.

I really don’t want children to turn into the kind of angry, unhappy young men or women that exemplify some on Secular Scotland. When the sacred gift of sex is turned into the recreational indulgence of lust it is then that real harm is done – to everyone. The reintroduction of the slave trade, the prevalence of abortion, STD’s, broken homes, pornography and prostitution. It is not without significance that I have read several defences of both pornography and prostitution on Secular Scotland.

As regards religion, their current leader who is stepping down, is furious with me for saying that they are an anti-religious hate group. In fact he is so upset that in a fit of pique he decided not to use the footage they had of the Scott McKenna debate (does anyone else find it amusing that the Scottish Secular Society are so obsessed with me that they send people to film a theological debate, and then pass it round their members like it was some kind of great revelation?!). But I’m afraid that the facts speak for themselves. On their history page we can read the thoughts of their founder (who at various times states he is not anti-religious). ““Personally, as a secularist, I hate religion and feel I have every right to, despite attempts by the Scottish government to sneak a blasphemy law round the back door by making it an offence this year to hate religion. “ Anyone who reads the threads on SS can soon work out that the main reason for its existence is to allow people to express their hatred of religion. This is an emotional not a rational position.

There is a collective groupthink that is quite frightening. This means that everyone just assumes that ‘secular’ values are obvious and fundamentally right. Pro-abortion, pro-homosexuality, pro-euthanasia. Disagreement is not tolerated, nor even considered. With a couple of honourable exceptions SS members do not engage in rational discourse or logical argument. The standard fare is mockery and abuse. So for me its time to go.

It’s also time to go because SS, hampered by the anti-religious abuse and the obsession with sex, are really going nowhere. Most people can see where they are coming from and where they are going to. They make a lot of noise but have very little impact. Their one ‘success’ is their creationism petition to the Scottish parliament, which actually failed, at least by any normal criteria. It was not accepted, nothing changed and nothing happened. But the SSS had invested so much time and effort into it, that they had to claim success and when the Scottish government minister issued advice about something that was already the case, they clutched in desperation at that straw. Largely in the battle to prevent a militant atheistic secularism being imposed upon Scotland, SS have become irrelevant. There are bigger fish to fry. At an intellectual level it has become a bit like taking candy of a baby.

And I’m not really the best person to deal with the emotional ranting that passes for rational argument on SS. Once we have reached the level of we are not a hate group, how dare you say so? Being matched with “I hate organised religion, but boy, I sure do hate you more!” and this being regarded as acceptable comment, then it is time to bow out.

I leave SS members with these thoughts. Why so much hatred? I don’t really think it is because of me. You don’t personally know me and it’s daft to hate someone you don’t know. Could it be that Jesus was right when he prophesied that you would hate his followers because ultimately you hate him? Your whole religion (and it is a religion) is based upon human autonomy and goodness. Both are demonstrably false, and both can only work if you manage to delude yourselves that there is no God. So, like Aldous Huxley, your non-belief in God is in fact just a justification for your own selfishness and sin. In that you and I are the same, with the exception that I acknowledge that I am a sinner. In that regard I apologise for anything I have said that has been sinful and wrong (I’m sure there has been much) but I ask you not to justify your sin by mine, but rather to look at the One who can deal with it. The fact is that one-day you will stand before a Judge who will ask you to give account for every careless word spoken (or written on the internet) and every act done. Right now you will mock and abuse at the very idea of such a day. But I simply ask you to reflect upon this, ‘what if its true?”. Hadn’t you better find out? Maybe if you seek you will find? Maybe you might discover, as many others have, that the problem is not all religion but false religion. Maybe Jesus might actually be the Way, the Truth and the Life. I pray that you would discover that in this life, before you face it in the next. Meanwhile if anyone of you want to have a sensible discussion, you can contact me privately. God have mercy on us all.

The All Inclusive Church

Christian Today Article – The All Inclusive Church

This is my latest article on the Christian Today website.  I think it is a crucial issue for the Church today.  Let me know you think, and if you find it helpful, feel free to pass on!

Have you ever been on one of those ‘all inclusive’ holidays? The kind where everything, from the beer at the bar to the food in the restaurant and the sauna in the swimming pool is included in the price. I have never managed that particular luxury but it strikes me that I really do want an all-inclusive church. One where everything is provided that is essential for spiritual birth, growth and renewal, and one where everyone is included.

It is often the boast of those who would style themselves as ‘liberal, open and progressive’ that they are ‘inclusive.’ They preach about wanting a more ‘inclusive’ church, often to their mono-cultural white liberal middle class congregation. But on this particular issue I have to say that I agree with the liberals. I want a more inclusive diverse church. But how can that happen? Just talking about it, or giving yourself the self-description, does not make it happen.

The trouble is that the imposition of politically correct ideologies under the guise of ‘inclusive’ Christianity is not real inclusivity. It only includes those who agree with the ideology in the first place. Real inclusivity is not based on PLUS (people like us). It is not based on race, social class, gender, age or political ideology. It is not based on religion. For there to be real inclusivity it has to be based upon such a foundation that it breaks down the ‘dividing walls of partition’.

How is it possible? The answer is not that difficult. We preach Christ and his Word. Last week in my church St Peters, Dundee, I was amazed at the variety of people we had with us – an Indian family, Hungarian missionaries, a Nigerian family, another family from Chicago, people from Montrose, Dundonians, Irish students, Malaysian medics, people ranging from two weeks to 86 years old, rich and poor, those from a variety of religious backgrounds (Catholic, Presbyterian, Baptist, Charismatic, Pagan, Atheist and others); those with different political persuasions from Scottish Nationalist, Old Labour, New Labour, True Blue Tories, UKIP and Liberal-Democrats).

We were visited by a journalist, Kevin McKenna who wrote an astonishing article in The Scottish Daily Mail the following Saturday in which he declared, “What happened for two hours after 11am in Dundee last week was quite breath-taking. There was no waving of hands or hallelujah fervour or stamping of feet, just a joyful gathering of many people – from every background imaginable in modern polyglot Scotland; young and old; rich and poor; non-conformist and High Church.”

What could bring such a diverse group of people together? What could keep them united in their diversity? Only Christ. Ironically those who say they want diversity and inclusivity, never get it when they exclude the source of that diversity and inclusivity – Christ. Changing Christ and his teaching in order to try and win people only ends up with more disunity.

Paul tells the Ephesian church that they were not always united. In Ephesians 2 he declares that we used to be dead in our transgressions and sins, separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel, foreigners to the covenants of promise, without hope and without God in the world (Ephesians 2). But… we were brought near – the apostle ends the chapter magnificently – “Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow-citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.” (Ephesians 2:19-22, NIV).

You are not bringing them your views, you are bringing them Christ. And not just the vague wishy washy, ‘your own personal Jesus is whatever you want him to be.’ But the Jesus, who Paul tells the Ephesians, chooses, creates, and re-creates through his Spirit and because of his cross. Unity costs. To be ‘in Christ’ requires that we have been cleansed by the blood of Christ. It is the cross that brings peace, reconciles and gives us access to the Father by the one Spirit.

As a result we gather as his covenant community – not united by skin colour, social class or adherence to societal norms or political doctrines – but united simply as his people, cleansed by his blood, filled with his Spirit, secure in his promises and inviting ‘whosoever will’ to come to Christ. That invitation is far more likely to be accepted because they see the unity of the Trinity expressed in the Body of Christ.

The message of Christ leads to the unity of believers with the Trinity, that the world may believe! “My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me (John 17:20-21, NIV).

When you go on the all inclusive holiday you get everything thrown in. Its already paid for. When you get Christ, you also freely along with him, get everything thrown in. Its already paid for. Isn’t real inclusive Christianity wonderful!

Quantum of Solas 44 – Corbyn & British Values | Saudi diplomat sex scandals | US & guns | The Scottgate Tapes | Alice Cooper | Bob Dylan | Solas Conference Edinburgh


This weeks podcast looks at Corbyn & British Values | Saudi diplomat sex scandals | US & guns | The Scottgate Tapes | Alice Cooper | Bob Dylan | Solas Conference Edinburgh
Enjoy – subscribe – pass on….

Devilish Advice about Dealing with Christian Ministers who actually believe the Bible (with apologies to C S Lewis)

My dear Diabolos,

Good job! I see you have been learning from your earlier mistakes and are actually using our Fathers carefully selected subtleties. Its good that you have been following the diabolic guidelines when dealing with these loathsome creatures who actually believe what Jesus said. I commend your recent activities through your patient and I can assure you that we will use his blog in the future as an example of the kind of thing we are looking for. http://www.neilgcampbell.net/rev-scott-s.-mckenna-and-rev-david-andrew-robertson-a-misjudged-conversation/ As you are aware the guidelines he has been following are those found in book 2, section 48 of Our Father of Lies Training Manual, entitled “Ten rules for undermining preachers who actually believe the bible”. It is deeply satisfying to see that you have done your work so well that unwittingly he as been using them as though he were one of us.

Rule 1 – Don’t start with ridiculous concepts such as truth and facts. Start with impression and emotion. Begin with discrediting your opponent by calling them Continue reading

A Theological Conversation with Scott McKenna – FULL TRANSCRIPT

The following is a full transcript of the theological conversation between Rev Scott McKenna (Minister, Church of Scotland) and Rev David Robertson, Moderator of the Free Church of Scotland and Director of Solas Centre for Public Christianity. The conversation was chaired by the Very Rev John Chalmers, Principal Clerk to, and former Moderator of, the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland. It took place in Mayfield Salisbury Church of Scotland, Edinburgh on 30th September, 2015 at 7:30pm.

My reflections on this can be found here –


Despite written assurances that video and audio footage would be made available, the Church of Scotland has deleted the recordings.

Thanks to Ally Smith for the hard work of transcribing and laying out the full discussion. Please remember that this is a verbatim account of a spoken debate and therefore the grammar etc is not what you would expect for a written debate!

A low quality audio recording of the discussion can be listened to here: http://tapesfromscotland.org/mayfie…


Angus McIntyre: (Session Clerk of Mayfield Salisbury Church of Scotland)

On behalf of Mayfield Salisbury Church I should like to extend our welcome to our audience this evening and to thank you for attending the public conversation featuring the Rev David Robertson and the Rev Scott McKenna.
Continue reading

Intolerance, Abuse and Disdain for Human Rights – The Scottish Secular Society – Courier Debate continues

Letter: Secularists misrepresented
The Courier & Advertiser 3 Oct 2015

Sir, – In response to my letter detailing his misrepresentations of The Scottish Secular Society Rev David Robertson (September 29) produces more misrepresentations.

The SSS do not oppose the right of parents to have their children educated according to their religion, we merely oppose the idea that the state must supply such education. In this we are not at variance with the UN Charter on Human Rights which obliges states only to allow such educational choices, not to fund them.

Education according to parents’ religion can easily be provided outside state schools, in homes, churches, Sunday schools and private Bible classes set up by groups. Atheist parents who wish to bring up their children as atheists are not helped to do so by the state education system, so why must Christians be?

Mr Robertson claims that schools cannot be neutral on belief since every school has a philosophy and ethos. Whether every school has a philosophy depends on how we interpret that word. Every school must have an ethos but that does not prevent neutrality on religion, since we all agree on many ethical issues. We do not expect schools to be neutral on bullying but an anti-bullying ethos is neutral on religion.

Mr Robertson falsely claims that The SSS’s petition against teaching young Earth creationism failed for lack of evidence. We presented evidence of such teaching and succeeded in obtaining guidance against it. Continue reading

The Scottgate Tapes – A Revealing Insight into the Current State of the Church of Scotland

This is one blog I was praying I would not have to write.   So much so that I have held of writing for days in the hope that common sense and Christian decency would prevail. But time has run out. I have to admit it…in my naivety I have been played and suckered. And it’s not a nice feeling.

On Wednesday September 30th I found myself walking down South Clerk St towards Salisbury Mayfield Church of Scotland. I was in a literal cold sweat to the extent that I wondered if I was going to collapse. Why was I in such a state? Because I felt I was walking into the lions den. I was there to debate Rev. Scott McKenna, minister of the Church, on the bible, the atonement and the future of the church in Scotland. You can see the advert linked here:


At one level I was excited. Because the church was packed with over 250 people on a midweek evening to discuss theology; because I liked Scott when I had met him previously and believed that he genuinely wanted to have an open discussion about Continue reading